• First became aware of you on Daily Blog Tips. I love this community!

    Anyway, I, too, am in the throes of revising TWO novels. I don't know what I was thinking. :-) But I can totally relate. Just started blogging in March, and now I really have to clamp down hard on my blogging so I can make time for my novel-writing, which was what started me blogging in the first place. How's that for irony? Good luck to you!

    Pink Inks last blog post..High School Love
  • Writer Dad
    Luis: Get back to your e-book. Shoot me an email and let me know where you're stuck. Maybe I'll have an idea.
  • Writer Dad,

    I know exactly what you mean.

    I'm in the same situation, only instead of a novel, it's my ebook I'm straying away from.

    I haven't touched that thing in well over 2 months. I don't know what's going on. It seems the excitement I had when I started it simply vanished, slowly but surely.

    I've been thinking about whether or not I should get back to it, or whether I should just forget about it. Now this post has me thinking about it even more --- thanks for the headache Writer dad :)

    Anyway, we need to get to it. You need to get to writing that novel and I have to get to writing that ebook --- what do you say, deal?

    Luis Grosss last blog post..Should Posts Be Short and To The Point or Long and Detailed?
  • Writer Dad
    Rita: Sure they could be used as a starting point. I just need someone to say, "Let me take a look," or I need to take the time to properly query, which I don't have. I put querying on hold while I had to wait eight weeks for an agent to take a gander. Out popped Writer Dad and there went all my time. The agent passed, and by passed I mean never got back to me.

    Kyddryn: Thanks for always being so nice. I'll have something soon.
  • Fortuna's blessing upon you, sugar...right place, right time, and the wisdom to find or make them together, at once. Here's to that perfect moment - it will be there when you're ready for it.

    Hurry up, though - I could use some good reading material (yes, yes, I know you can't rush these things, but it's fun to tease).

    Shade and Sweetwater,
    K (who is just a wee discouraged in her own hunt for that place/time convergence and will happily be distracted by your hunt for yours)
  • Writer Dad,
    I remember both of the Stephen King references - well. And I hear you. What has been done with the shorter books? Can they be your launching point? Remember, Stephen King started with a little book called "Carrie." "The Stand" and the "Dark Tower Series"came out after he had established himself. Look at what he did with "The Regulators" and "Desperation." Or the way he parcelled out "The Green Mile." Talk about a rule breaker! But he was bringing money in. ONLY after having started out small.

    You'll succeed - I know you will. But your opus doesn't need to come first. Polish what you have. And then the Publsihers will be beating down YOUR door!

    Rita
  • Writer Dad
    Brett: That's sneaking up on it and pushing it hard for me, but I love the motivation. It's swift.

    James: Thanks James. I'm excited to have you read it.
  • Good luck Writer Dad! I will be eager to read your book someday.
  • Writer Dad,

    The thing with NaNoWriMo is that you could just pretend, if you like. There's no obligation to upload your words for an official count. I just like knowing there's a critical mass of folks all writing at once.

    I planned to have it done no later than 2009 March 31. That is doable, for me.
  • Writer Dad
    Brett: I think I need to be talked into NanoWrimo. When do you plan to release your big book? The Oprah one.
  • Writer Dad - hey, why not? That would be kind of fun. A friendly race, where we both say, "come on, run faster".

    Why not!
  • Writer Dad
    Apathy Lounge: Observant writing is some of my favorite. You don't have to make things up, necessarily. Maybe short stories about things you've seen. You could compile those into a collection.

    Brett: I'm talking myself into it.

    Patricia: Thank you Patricia. I'm glad I can make you laugh. Even not knowing you, that makes me happy. Give the short story a shot. My novel grew from a short story. Perhaps you'll surprise yourself.

    Rita: It just depends on the body of work. If your talking about your novel. You're right. I have several shorter books written, and a couple others in the planning phases. None of those will need to be rewritten, just revised. However, my big novel, could never have just been written. It wasn't in my head. It wasn't even close. Remember in King's, "On Writing," where he talks about finding the fossil and dusting it off? This is that book. Remember in "Duma Key," when Edgar Freemantle is just painting. This is that book. I lot spilled out, I need to mop it up.

    Lance: I'm ready. Thanks for being a part of the rah-rah section.

    Brett: I couldn't agree more. Hey, do you wanna race? I mean like, in a totally friendly way.
  • I think the bottom line is that what works for one person, may or may not work for the rest - so the comments section of a post like this are a good source of info for all of us. See what everyone else is up to, and learn from it.
  • You're well on your way Writer Dad. Sometimes a break is just what is needed to get the creative juices flowing again. Onward!
  • WD,
    OK. I'm gonna run the risk of pissing you and a lot of people off. The whole "baby being born in the draft and raised in the re-rewrite." That's about as effective as "It was a dark and stormy night." I am NOT speaking as a person who got lucky enough to get a book into publication. The whole concept of "re-write" is, IMHO caca. Write, then revise. Otherwise you might as well be"writing" two books and hoping that one gets published. Sorry. But that's the BLOG Rita talking. The one from 2 months ago. An opinion - like we exchanged during the Olympics!

    Rita
  • @Beth - You are SPOT ON about copy editing!
    Rita
  • You make me laugh and I am so intense I love coming to your blog and reading,laughing and enjoying. Thank you so much.
    I am too afraid to attempt to write even a short story let alone a novel even though I have been told I will write 2 books at least in my life time by every psychic I have ever paid money to for "what I am going to do when I grow up"
  • Writer Dad,
    That's pretty much why I DIDN'T write for12 years, and it evolved the way it did...I was rather busy raising my children!
    A ringing phone, logging on to the computer, even picking up a pencil (which always disappeared anyway) was like a "call of the wild" for the kids.
    But I do have to reiterate one thing...no matter what, try to go in a forward-moving direction. The more you keep questioning what you've written, the farther behind you'll fall, causing the frustration.

    As I said in one of my blogs or comments: The page I started on ended up being the beginning of Chapter 4! That's where I felt most comfortable writing - directly at THAT point, not at Chapter 1. Had I tried to begin on Chapter 1, I'd still be sitting at a typewriter today. If you can stop looking at "rules" and see them only as "guidelines" this might be a bit easier for you. You get what you get out of contests and courses, but the writing should be enjoyable, not painful.

    Maybe that's just me - I wasn't going to go into any type of "suffering artist mode." Had that happened - even at the 200th page - the fireplace would have eaten every word, and I don't think I'd ever have tried it again. Sure, anything worthwhile should be tempered with a bit of hesitation and frustration, but life is painful enough.

    Maybe it's easy to say now, but I DO believe I felt this way all along. I didn't expect the writing to come EASILY, but I didn't expect it to be totally laborious either. For me, it was a joyful experience (with a few moments of nasty words and broken glasses), but, I have to tell you, on this one, I believe that Friar's got the right attitude - and might be the first to sit down and FINISH something worthwhile. Because he is a better writer? NO. Because he realizes that he's not willing to give up certain enjoyments in his life for the sake of a "book." Every mother I knew was "writing a book" when her kids were growing up and they were home. But nobody ever WROTE one, to my knowledge.

    I hope you understand my point, WD. Your kids are only young once. So are you! :-)

    @Brett - That "focus" should guide you in the NaNoWriMo. Good for you! If you start losing that "focus," however, GET OUT! :-)

    Rita
  • @Writer Dad and Beth,

    Yeah, NaNoWriMo is worth it even if all you want to do is write a whole bunch of stuff that may not be a book. I mean, you get all kinds of motivational messages from them, and you really feel like you're part of something bigger than yourself. I really enjoyed it last year, and I'll be doing it again this year - but this time, I have a real focus.
  • Writing a novel was a dream I gave up on a long time ago. I can describe what I see, but it had better be real. I can't make stuff up in my head. I'm just not wired that way. But I'm jazzed as hell that you are.

    apathy lounges last blog post..It's the most awful-est time of the year: Part Deux
  • Writer Dad
    Rita: My hat's tipped. I could never spend twelve years on anything, except my family. I want my mind to jump from world to world with small breaks in between. And yes, Steph is awesome.

    Beth: I think that's a really good idea; writing a story as a blog. I think I'd like to do that someday.

    I can't imagine having editors living in my head.

    Vered: Thanks. If I can just start peddling, I'm sure I can coast.

    SpaceAgeSage: I'm exactly the same. Writing = Fun. Editing = Not so much.

    Bamboo: I'll be over soon.
  • Good luck with your novel! I have a bit of an interest in writing short stories, but need more practice.

    A novel is quite an undertaking. Maybe if you read my entry that I posted today it will help ;-)
  • To get back into a writing a book (I have two in progress), I have to go back to the beginning --before editing -- when it was fun and furious. I have to catch on fire all over again because I don't like editing. Nope, don't like it at all.

    SpaceAgeSages last blog post..What keeps you asleep at the wheel?
  • "She handed her words to the right person. But if they’d been lousy, Rita never would’ve had a deal. "

    I agree!

    Good luck with perfecting your own novel.
  • Brett, NaNoWriMo sounds like fun. Maybe I'll give it a shot with the story I'm working on now, but it's also the month of the Denver Film Festival, and I've always had a fantasy about trying to see every movie.

    Friar, that sounds cool, to have all that material awaiting you.

    I was also interested in what Scott said about turning a novel into a blog. I know of a writer who does that at this blog: http://bernardsblog.blogspot.com/. I got hooked on the story about Layla and Cole that started earlier this year.

    As someone who's been copyediting for 17 years (now there will probably be all kinds of typos in this comment), I'd like to add a caveat about copyediting. It's a fairly picky process, best done on books that are almost ready to be published. If you're still polishing the story, it's probably not the best time to have someone looking at your grammar and punctuation. A good copyeditor should be able to tell you whether your story is ready for that kind of editing or still needs more of a developmental edit.

    Steph, yeah, it takes me a good half hour to an hour to get all the editors in my head to shut up so I can write something. I try to spend that time doing a little bit of line editing on what I've already written, or just staring off into space. Then the editors get bored and go do something else.
  • Writer Dad,

    Thanks for the shout. What you need to remember is that it took 12 YEARS for my novel to emerge. I jotted notes, I thought of lines I wanted to use, I bulleted things. And I read. More than anything, I read myriad books in the genre in which I wanted to write. I decided what I did and did NOT want to do. Even deciding whether to go with a first or third person narrative got kicked around for years.

    Then, one day, I had it. I typed. I took all those thoughts, all those notes, and I put them on paper. One thing I did NOT do until the end was REVISE. I found that revising as I went sapped my strength. So I typed. And after I did my revisions, at the very end, what I had written looked pretty much like the "final manuscript." By contantly looking backwards, I wasn't moving forward. So after just a few days of that, I stopped - and typed.

    That's what worked for ME. Because of the genre, I knew, after all of my thinking and jotting, who my characters were, how I wanted them to unfold, and how the ending was going to be scattered through the book.

    That's what worked for ME. Like I said, my book was never "my baby," so let's put it into "Writer Dad" mode: I suffered constipation for 12 years, and then couldn't stop my bowels for 8 months and 6 days!

    You'll make it - I know you will. But maybe you need to re-evaluate your method, your time schedule - or both.

    And listen to Steph. She's awesome! :-)

    Rita
  • Writer Dad
    Blogger Dad: It's all sound advice. I'm going to sit down, read it, and take notes. Then decide how to proceed. I would like to get the draft done by November 1st though.

    Ari: Thank you much. You are an absolute gentleman. Those who keep score, are often unhappy. Know that you are always welcome, regardless of when the party started.

    Chris: Just sit down and do it. If we can make time for our posts, we can make time for our pages.

    Friar/Brett: That's genius. I will do Nanowrimo, and just do like a hundred posts. Then I'll take the first half of 2009 off.

    Scott: I just like to write, and I can't wait until I can make my living doing it. I have a tremendous idea for a blog that will tie into the novel, but the novel has to come first. Great question.
  • Scott McIntyre
    I'm very interested to learn that you're writing a novel, Writer Dad.

    It's likely old news to your other readers, but new news to me :-)

    So, can I ask where you find the inspiration to both blog and write in other genres too- and have you ever thought of turning your novel into a blog, a few pages at a time?
  • @Friar,

    Well, some of the stuff on my blog actually came from my writing for the NaNoWriMo contest - so I recycled mine! Hey, why not!
  • @Beth and Brett

    Last year, I did NaNoWriMo. I didnt' quite get a novel, I got about 39,000 words....but wasn't one continuous story. (rather, a random collection of thougths and short stories).

    Lots of material there. I need to figure out what to do with it all.
  • I've been working on a novel for about three years now and still no where being half-way done. It's all in my head really. In my head it's beautifully written. I guess I just have to have my head tell my ass to get going and finish the book already.
  • Beth - "The only difficulty is getting out of editor mode when I write."

    I HEAR YOU!!!
  • Hi Writer Dad,

    Just a quick comment to say hi and cheer you on on your writing project.

    Just so you know, I don't comment on your blog as often as you do on mine, not because I don't read your posts but mostly because by the time I get here, you have dozens of comments. I don't like to comment just to leave my link, I don't like to comment without reading what everybody else wrote, and I don't like to comment where it doesn't add much to the post.

    I'll pop in if I happen to be one of the lucky first few and have something to say! But in the mean time, carry on, my friend.

    ari
  • Great post and lot's of great advice, especially the part about fresh eyes and getting the work copyedited. Don't worry about the seven weeks off, the time off should help you greatly.

    The only advice I can offer which isn't already here is on the subject of re-writing which may or may not help you depending where you are at. If you are going to make massive changes (and it sounds like you might, if you are unsure of where the meat of the story is), don't get bogged down on a particular segment/chapter. Summarize what you want to do/change in that chapter, then keep moving forward, so you don't get stuck. Once you're done going through the whole book, go back to each of the segments which need massive re-writing. Then, go over the whole thing again.
  • Writer Dad
    NOTE: I really, really want to do Nanowrimo this year, but I don't think I'll be able to swing it. Next year, for sure.

    Dot: It's a series for sure. I just don't know if I've written the first in a triology, or the first trilogy.
  • Dot
    "Chapter book," right-click, new tab, google, wikipedia, oh okay, close. Not being a parent, aunt or grandparent, I never heard the term.

    Me, I can't write fiction. So, non-fiction it is.

    It sounds like you might be writing a series, if there's too much for a novel.
  • @Friar (and with thanks to Beth),

    As Beth said, and I was just thinking this before her comment - maybe NaNoWriMo this year is a good time to unplug the blogs for us.

    I'm thinking maybe I'll pre-write my Viking Fridays for the month, and say, "hey folks, I'll be back in a month to respond, have fun while I'm out!"

    I know I've written a lot, and then again, I've rewritten a lot (and maybe shouldn't have, rather, should have left it to a copyeditor!)

    Hmm... I think I'll consider that.
  • Friar,

    I understand about being "written out." Way back in the day I had a reporter job, and I ended up quitting it because I couldn't do it and write anything else.

    I find that copyediting mixes much better with writing. The only difficulty is getting out of editor mode when I write.

    Is there any possibility that you could take a long weekend, or a week, or a month, and do nothing but write? There are lots of "novel challenges" out there, in which you go to a hotel or somewhere away from your regular life and do nothing but write. Or where you make a commitment to write a certain number of words. They can be really fun.
  • Writer Dad
    Brett: Thanks, Brett. Me neither. I always wanted to be a dad, but it's so much more, in every way, than I anticipated.

    Sal: Vu JaDe, that's funny. Only the time factor is a struggle. If I can carve the hours, the writing's a joy.

    Beth: My problem with the book is that there's "too much." My mind's still with it, I just don't quite know how to attack it best. I'm with you about the time blocks. I'd rather have one four hour, then four one hours, but I take what I can get.

    Steph: I'm going to start reading it this weekend. I'll make my notes and have the draft by the first of November.

    Friar: Widget factories are suck.

    Dave: You nailed it perfect. I'm super relaxed about it, but I do want it finished. I think the relaxation's easier because I have other projects in the pipeline.
  • @steph,

    Oh, I will give you advance warning - don't you worry!
  • @Brett: I'm really excited about that! I can't wait!! Give me a couple weeks' notice if you can, so I don't take on anything else.
  • Friar: Sometimes you gotta eat up your free time with the thing that's going to get you more free time. That's going to get you out, right?

    My mother always asks me how I could do so much reading. I read manuscripts all day and then read fiction novels. She doesn't get how I don't get sick of reading. But reading fiction is so different from editing and reading non-fiction that it's as though I'm doing something different altogether. Yeah, my eyes get tired, but it's a minor annoyance compared to what I enjoy doing!
  • Writer Dad, It’s just scary how the weeks can drift by filled with busy living and denying us our goals, even if only temporarily.

    I can’t truly understand your perspective, as I have no real concept of what it is to be a writer, so these glimpses into the process fascinate me. I can only liken it to a big project in need of completing. My solution would be to drop EVERYTHING else and get it done. I accept that this probably doesn’t work well with creative writing.

    I get the feeling that you’re actually quite relaxed about the novel although the desire to complete is strong. When you do finish the book could I request a signed copy, with a hand written personal message from the author? Please.
  • @Steph,

    Yes, Mistress Yoda ;) and that is why you shall be my copyeditor!

    (It is coming along, too. I worked on it this morning, and I will again tomorrow, and the next day...)

    @Friar,

    I'll tell you what works for me - when I need one of those 5 minute breaks, I write something *for me* and then email it to myself. Even if it's just the outline of the next section.
  • I'm kind of torn about writing on my free time.

    My day-job involves LOTS of boring, dry technical bureaucratic writing. So after 7.5 hours of that crap, when I get home, I'm "written out".

    Plus, since I work full time I don't have the finacial pressure of having to write to feed myself and pay the bills.

    So I try to treat it as a hobby, I write when it's fun, and when I chose to do so.

    But then again, with this slack approach, it would take FOREVER to finish a book (if at all).

    So I'm trying to balance on a fine line. Haven't quite figured it out yet.

    All I know is that I DON'T want to work at the Widget Factory when I'm 80.
  • PS. I'll leave you to explain the kid sister bit!
  • You are learning well, young Padawan.

    :)

    Okay, kid sister. Here's how it is. You've repeatedly said these things about your novel. At least to me. You're just like me. You keep repeating the issues instead of doing something about them, even though you feel on the verge. In other words, I understand.

    First, let me say that it sounds as though seven weeks or thereabouts is just what you need. You are too close to the text, obviously, if you can't always see the issues. Time away is not a bad thing. It doesn't necessarily mean you're procrastinating. It might mean gaining perspective, yes? If you're ready to get back to it, though, as you've suggested, do it. As you said, allow it to not be perfect. (That's someone else's job, besides.)

    From the sounds of it, much can be weeded, but you may also want to think about dividing the book into several books.

    Here's another thing to try on for size. Finish the draft (sure, driven by the thought that the right agent is out there chomping at the bit, hungry for pizza, which your novel just happens to taste like. EXcellent!).

    THEN LET A COPYEDITOR AT IT. If you can pass off ugly duties, do that. There are some things you don't have to worry about. Let others deal with those problems. Perhaps all you need is not only more perspective yourself but another's perspective as well. Someone not so close to you, as you've hinted.

    You. And Brett. Do or do not. There is no try.

    May the Force be with you. :)
  • Writer Dad

    I think the key with writing books is to know when to move on. If it's still intriguing you, if you can't stop thinking about the story, then go back to it and don't worry about the time when you weren't working on it. Otherwise, maybe it was just a learning experience? I worked on my first novel for many years (along with other writing projects). I just couldn't give up on the characters, but it took me a long time to realize how, frankly, boring the plot was. I just wasn't giving these people anything interesting to do. I've started another novel and am feeling much happier about the plot in general.

    I'm also thinking about giving up on the "writing every day" mantra. If that works for you, great, but it hasn't been working for me since I don't have a lot of time to spend on a novel these days. I think carving out a block of time--say, four hours--will get me a lot more pages because I won't have to psyche myself up to write 5 times a week, just once or twice.

    Matthew, you'll never be "ready." Just sit down and free write. As I said above, I like the plot of my new novel, but I've also been thinking that the pages I've written so far are just background, and I haven't gotten to the real story yet. I'm not going to let it worry me; I'll just keep on moving forward.

    Beths last blog post..Wen Chocolates (Theme: Chocolatiers in Denver)
  • Sal
    Vu JaDe: the sensation that this has never happened before!

    It is amazing what the mind does when it wants to, even though you may not want to. I know the novel has been a struggle, but you will make it through, it will be published, and you will be able to move on to yet bigger and better things. Keep at it!
  • Writer Dad,

    Hey, you do it too! We all rise to the challenge to be great parents. It's just what we do. I'd never have imagined how much fun it could be, before doing it.

    And thanks, as well - Brett
  • Writer Dad
    Matthew: Allow it to be terrible. If you were to read my first draft, you'd weep with sadness for me. It's okay to be bad, just get it done. Remember, you're baby's born in the rough draft, but you raise it in the rewrite.

    Jim: Don't worry, you haven't missed anything. I haven't discussed anything about the book, other than the process. You can check out "Shocking," or "Your Baby's Born in the Rough Draft, You Raise Them in the Rewrite." I'm gimpy and don't know how to add a link in the comment box, even though it's my blog, but I'll email them to you (after I make coffee). The problem with the book is that it's kind of about everything; it has no focus. I'll for sure have a book soon, I just think I might have something else finished, before I can make my first one what it can possibly be.

    Miguel: I already have. I plan to finish this draft by the first of November. I really, really want to do nanowrimo this year, but I don't think I can justify the time.

    J.D.: Your comment made me smile. The pipeline approach is precisely the approach I'm using. In fact, the pipeline's getting a bit clogged. I have a few completed chapter books, and a lot of children's books. As far as the writing itself, I'd have to say it's story driven. I rarely know what I'm doing (including my posts) outside of a topic sentence. Then I write (ramble really). It takes shape when I go back and edit.

    Jarkko: If I had to toss it in the trash right now, it would still have been an amazing learning experience. The first draft took me four months. I worked on it every day. When I was done, I knew myself a little better.

    Chase: That's great advice. I went through the first two drafts without reading my work; just writing and rewriting. It was ridiculous that I'd written it twice, yet hadn't taken the time to read it once. I read it just before this last draft, and filled a spiral notebook with notes. I just haven't done very much with those notes.... except think about them.

    Brett: Thanks Brett. Triplets... again, wow. You are a man and a half. I can't wait for your book about your wife to make me cry.
  • I really enjoyed reading this, first, because we just sent our 4-year old triplets off to school this week, and so we've also done the interview thing times three.

    And second, because I know where you are. I'm writing my book too. And it comes in fits and starts. But it is progressing.

    You have the spirit within you to do this. You will do it.

    Keep at it, as will I.

    -Brett
  • I think you HAVE to take some time off between revisions. You need to move on to some other project and get your mind completely off of that story for some time. This allows you to come back to your manuscript with fresh eyes and read it like a fan.

    I always do this between drafts and I find it really helps. When I start revising, I sit down and read the entire manuscript in one-sitting and only make quick pencil notes on it. This was I can catch some of the continuity errors and other problems easier.

    So don't worry about your break and stop thinking about your book for a moment. I'm sure it will help.

    Chase Marchs last blog post..Meet The Teacher BBQ
  • jarkkolaine
    Thanks for inspiring, once again. I think I'll get my draft out from the drawer again and back on the drawing table...

    But you're way ahead, already working on your third draft. That's an amazing learning experience, even if you'd have to start it all over from scratch.

    Jarkko Laines last blog post..The 52-in-One Challenge: Write a Blog Post Like Nothing You’ve Ever Seen Before
  • What's your approach -- character-driven or story unfolding?

    I once heard that Stephen King writes his story, shelves it for six months, then re-writes it. He has a pipeline though. While you're mastering your craft, maybe the pipeline approach will serve you? (long story short, one of my mentors who's written more than 150 books built a portfolio of results to avoid having all his eggs in one basket .)

    J.D. Meiers last blog post..Social Loafing
  • So get yourself a deadline. That's the bright side of nanowrimo. We somehow need somebody else to set up the deadlines for us... or so it seems.

    Miguel de Luiss last blog post..You can’t!
  • So what is your book going to be about? Sorry, I am new to your blog and haven't check all your posts. If it is in there can you send me the link and I will read that post?

    I hope you can keep your heels down and get the book down. I am more interested in reading a book from someone that I feel I know better (your posts are personal and I like that) that from something at the book store.

    Good luck!

    ~ Jim
  • I've been running scared of my novel for almost 2 years. Although I've thought out the story, I'm still scared to write it down. It's much, much better sitting in head (at least then I don't have to stare what the potential-terribleness of it all on paper). Someday I know I'll have to do it...but only when I'm ready.

    I've never felt any kind of self-awareness before the last few months. I've been noticing when I'm not performing my best in writing, playing games, or any other kind of thing. Then I notice after I rest a bit, it's better. I've not felt that before. Perhaps you just need to rest to start seeing the lines between the good and the bad.

    Matthew Drydens last blog post..I Can Tell, Tree
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